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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
56
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Posted - 2016.09.09 22:52:47 -
[1] - Quote
Explorers! Earn extra ISK as you explore by bookmarking every citadel you find, and help crowd-source a list of citadels in order to improve third-party apps.
Benefits to you:
* You get extra ISK (1,000,000 ISK for every previously unknown citadel you find)
* Exploration gets more exciting
* Third party apps improve
Get started at https://stop.hammerti.me.uk/citadelhunt
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Citadel name/system API: stop.hammerti.me.uk/api
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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
57
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Posted - 2016.09.15 12:20:10 -
[2] - Quote
Santas Lil'Helper wrote:Messenger Of Truth wrote:(...)blah(...)
Benefits to you:
* You get extra ISK (1,000,000 ISK for every previously unknown citadel you find) only 1 mil isk?
There are 10 or 20 citadels in some systems. If you're already doing sites in a system anyway, then bookmarking citadels is something you can do while you're in warp so its free money for near negligible effort. I reckon there's at least another 1000 citadels that haven't been discovered yet. Maybe 2000.
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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
57
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Posted - 2016.09.15 14:55:24 -
[3] - Quote
I agree that its not a lot of money to fly through systems specifically to find citadels, but if I was already flying through a number of systems looking for relic sites, then the amount of effort involved to bookmark any citadels in those systems is rather low.
One guy got 200 million isk in a few hours.
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Citadel name/system API: stop.hammerti.me.uk/api
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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
57
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Posted - 2016.09.15 20:36:50 -
[4] - Quote
I'm not sure why you think there is such a risk to WH space. As soon as someone gets into your system he can trivially find all citadels via the sensor overlay in just a few seconds if he uses the sensor overlay properly.
On the other hand, if someone uses this API to find a system with multiple citadels in, they've got to somehow get into that system which means rolling hundreds of holes. But if someone rolls hundreds of holes, the chances are they'll find a more appealing target far before they get to your system.
If anyone is seriously interested in evicting you, they've already logged off a scout in your system so they can find a way into it. If they've already got a scout in your wormhole, then that scout has access to far more information than you can get through this API.
I don't reckon this API gives much assistance to evictions. I am happy to listen to reasoned arguments why my view is wrong though.
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Citadel name/system API: stop.hammerti.me.uk/api
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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
57
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Posted - 2016.09.15 22:24:52 -
[5] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Why would I give anyone else a competitive advantage to screw over my friends in exchange for next to zero isk?
Yes, don't screw over your friends...
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Citadel name/system API: stop.hammerti.me.uk/api
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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
57
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Posted - 2016.09.15 22:26:48 -
[6] - Quote
radkid10 wrote:this is a very shity deal it's a waste of time I would maybe do it for 10 million
if you got 10 million isk per citadel you could get a billion isk in an hour or so depending on where you flew. There are a lot of citadels out there and I'm not made of money!
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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
57
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Posted - 2016.09.16 09:22:04 -
[7] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:Let me break it down for you, there's no asset security in wh space. So, you bookmark all these citadels. You figure out who owns the system (zkillboard). You find a fortizar in a c2 with a corp that's never killed another ship. You get some polarized oracles on sisi - you waste some time.
30-bil of stuff in there? 50 bil? Great burn it down. Not only that but now you know how the citidal was fit, you know if they have caps, etc.
People are already doing this in a small scale - they don't need an api verified tool to make their job easier. I get where you're coming from but this isn't a charitable endeavor for wormhole space.
Ok this is what I don't get about your plan. Lets say you find a system with a citadel with this API. All you get from this API is the system name, and the name of the citadel. You have no idea what corporation owns the citadel.
So what you're saying is, you're going to roll several hundred holes on Sisi to find out the corp that owns the citadel (because this API can't tell you this). But it turns out that corp is super active. Ok better roll another few hundred holes to find the next citadel on the list. Ok this corps not very active. So you're going to burn the citadel and see what drops. Uh oh, terrible drops. Ok burn another few hundred holes to find the next citadel on the list. Finally you find a corp that's not only not active, but has some good stuff stashed in their citadel. Great, so now you move over to TQ armed with that information, roll several hundred holes for real until you find that system and burn the citadel down. That was a lot of effort.
How about this easier plan B: go on Sisi, roll holes until you find a citadel, check corp history, if not active, then pop citadel. rinse and repeat until you find a good citadel. Now switch to TQ and roll hundreds of holes until you find that citadel again.
Honestly plan B is the better one. What benefit does this API give to someone who's doing plan B? Finding out from the API there is a citadel in a particular wormhole doesn't tell you whether its owned by a corp that's active or not. So what exactly do you gain from knowing there is a citadel in a particular wormhole?
I can imagine the existence of a citadel in Nullsec being somewhat useful intel - if a citadel is in Delve, its almost certainly a Goon citadel, and you know from its location how easy it is to get to. But with wormholes, the location of the citadel gives you little clue who owns it, unless you know the wormhole is e.g. Hard Knox HQ. And in any case its surely so hard to get to a particular system, that the best strategy is surely to roll a few holes and check out the citadels you find that way, rather than roll hundreds of holes until you find a particular citadel you have seen on the API that could belong to anyone.
I'm honestly curious: I don't get how this API could be used to any significant advantage in wormholes.
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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
57
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Posted - 2016.09.16 09:30:48 -
[8] - Quote
Santas Lil'Helper wrote:whats the whole point of that app? i doubt you just want to collect wh citadel locations like other people collect stamps .. just as a hobby. but atm this sounds like a great tool for sightseeing tours on sisi to collect free intel ...
You're correct, I don't want to collect WH citadel locations like other people collect stamps. In fact I want to collect all citadel names in every system in the game. The reason for this is because citadel IDs turn up in a few places in CCP's APIs. They turn up in courier contracts and in ranged buy orders, and a few other places. But unlike with outposts, CCP haven't made an API that allows you to find out the name of a citadel or the system its in.
So lets say you have an app or website that lists your courier contracts, and lets say you've made a contract from a citadel. What is this application supposed to display for the destination of the contract? a number like 10239019292? That's obviously awful for the users of the app! So the solution to this problem that I came up with is to crowd-source citadel names and locations so that they can be matched up to IDs. I've exposed myself to potentially several billion ISK of liability with this citadel hunt, essentially as a public service to third-party app makers!
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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
57
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Posted - 2016.09.16 13:25:29 -
[9] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Messenger Of Truth wrote:radkid10 wrote:this is a very shity deal it's a waste of time I would maybe do it for 10 million if you got 10 million isk per citadel you could get a billion isk in an hour or so depending on where you flew. There are a lot of citadels out there and I'm not made of money! And this is our problem, why exactly?
Its only your problem because you're posting in this thread. You don't have to participate in this event, but I hope you do!
Today we hit the 2000th citadel discovered, across more than 1000 solar systems. As there are around 8000 systems in eve, there are a large number of citadels remaining to be discovered - perhaps a few thousand out there!
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Citadel name/system API: stop.hammerti.me.uk/api
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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
57
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Posted - 2016.09.16 17:54:31 -
[10] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Messenger Of Truth wrote:
Like I said in a previous post - I don't agree that this information is valuable for evictions, because the API cannot tell you who owns the citadel or how to get to that wormhole.
If you know the J-sig and what citadels are in there, you can easily pick out the weaker corps to stomp on. Why would I help do that when all it does is result in less people in WH space to get decent fights with? Sorry, no.
Even though Noxisia Arkana has had a hissy fit, I'm still trying to understand the issue: so lets say you find out the citadels in a wormhole system from this API. How do you then translate that into stomping a weaker corp?
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Citadel name/system API: stop.hammerti.me.uk/api
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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
57
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Posted - 2016.09.17 08:11:35 -
[11] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Messenger Of Truth wrote:Even though Noxisia Arkana has had a hissy fit, I'm still trying to understand the issue: so lets say you find out the citadels in a wormhole system from this API. How do you then translate that into stomping a weaker corp? How is any of this confusing? I'm not doing work for you for practically zero ISK to help build a database that gives intel to people I don't know.
Ok so basically you're not sure how it would help other people, but you just don't want to risk helping other people.
Better safe than sorry, I get that.
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Citadel name/system API: stop.hammerti.me.uk/api
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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
58
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Posted - 2016.10.06 10:59:20 -
[12] - Quote
If you use a tool like jEveAssets, and you have assets in a citadel, then before this API existed then you would have no idea which system the assets were even in. Now, for known citadels, jEveAssets is able to tell you the name of the citadel and the system its in.
Similarly if you use a website or third party app to track/manage item exchange or courier contracts that are located in a citadel, then the app cannot tell you the system or name of the citadel without the information provided by this API. Courier contracts don't really apply in wormholes I guess, only in k-space.
This API is designed to make third party apps/websites work well - maybe it has a side-effect of making it slightly easier to scout out systems but that's not its core purpose.
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Citadel name/system API: stop.hammerti.me.uk/api
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Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
58
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Posted - 2016.10.07 09:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
PopeUrban wrote:If its all the same to you, I'd prefer third party developers developed around CCPs API, which is automated based on server state rather than a reports-based API that can be seeded with false information by anybody that feels like it.
I too would much rather the citadel name <-> ID mapping was available through an official API! Its precisely because CCP have deprioritised their API work (so they can focus on their mobile app) that I've had to make this imperfect third party API.
Regarding false information, the problem is not that players are reporting the citadels. In fact the bookmarks that players upload contain a citadel ID and solar system ID (and similar information is available from ranged buy orders) so if the API says a citadel is there, then we know for sure that the citadel definitely is or was there.
Where this information is inaccurate is that there is no way of determining whether a citadel has been destroyed or unanchored, and there's no way of determining whether every citadel in a system has been uploaded. So the presence of a citadel in the API does not guarantee that its still there, and the absence of a citadel in the API does not guarantee no citadel is there.
Despite these limitations this API is successful at filling in gaps in CCP's API coverage for various third party tools. For example one player commented in another thread: "Did the update and now see my favorite citadel names just like regular stations. Very nice!".
[quote=PopeUrban]I now better understand what you're trying to do, I just don't like it very much on a personal level. Good luck though.[/quote[
thanks
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